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Post by jr on Mar 22, 2023 8:42:09 GMT 10
No not a duel mass clutch just a standard type thank goodness as they are expensive. Yes could be something wrong with the tolerances as the clutch that was fitted a year ago is not a quality item. Just very difficult to understand why.
JR
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Post by Old Techo on Mar 22, 2023 8:56:49 GMT 10
JR,
I'm still scratching for ideas and getting more radical.
Because, and only because, you explained that using different gears are the solution led me to the gearbox input shaft.
Having no idea about Suzuki boxes I can only think GTHO boxes.
When hypoid gears are used there is quite a lot of force transmitted axially along the gear shafts when the meshed gears want to push apart. It is possible that the gearbox input shaft is influenced by these forces trying to push said shaft forward out of the box or pull it back into the box.
Of course the input shaft is prevented from moving along its axis by at least one bearing. Said bearing would have to be badly word or somehow loose to permit this movement.
How any input shaft movement may affect the clutch I haven't bothered to think about. I'm merely pursuing the fact that operating in a different gear influences your issue.
The only other influence I can imagine is the gearbox control levers but I've largely ruled that out as just moving the lever doesn't fix it as you said you need to drive in another gear.
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Post by jr on Mar 22, 2023 15:13:24 GMT 10
I hope you are wrong about the gearbox input shaft OT, but I am open to any ideas. I have not mentioned this before as I did not think it had anything to do with the problem but today when my grandson took his Suzuki for a DPF blow out the problem did not happen! This morning we had the front differential and housing replaced as there was a bad winding noise coming from it and at 100K/hr it was bad and at a 100 plus is usually when the problem occurs but not always. The Suzuki is AWD under normal conditions so if any wheel loses traction all drive is lost until you engage the centre diff. This engine reeving up phenomenon could be similar to loosing traction but again I cannot understand how the front diff could have a fault that is intermittent. I have contacted the company that fitted the second-hand diff and asked them not to throw the old diff out. If the fault does not reappear in the next few weeks I will go down and bring the old diff and housing home and operate on it. The company Gearbox & Diff were confident that the differential would not lose drive and then regain it. JR
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Post by Old Techo on Mar 22, 2023 16:39:38 GMT 10
Hmmmmm JR.... with my brain-straining I didn't reckon on AWD
OK... so any loss of drive on any wheel and you have zero drive.
The obvious test next time it fails, if it does, is to touch nothing but just lock the centre diff. If there is disconnected drive in front or rear or an individual wheel you should be able to tell. If a single wheel then signs of crabbing should appear under throttle.
Is there a high/low ratio transfer box on the vehicle?
I reckon we have all focused on the slipping clutch theory based on your OP. AWD now opens up more options and perhaps better speculation than my gearbox idea
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Post by jr on Mar 22, 2023 17:23:20 GMT 10
Yes, OT there is a high low transfer box and it also holds the centre lockable diff. If it happens I have already advised my grandson to roll to the side of the road and when stopped lock the centre diff. I just cannot imagine an intermittent problem with the gear trains it would be just bang end of story. JR
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Post by Old Techo on Mar 22, 2023 18:14:48 GMT 10
JR,
The problem with stopping to lock the diff means gear changes and they fix it.
Can't the diff be locked whilst driving dead straight?
If drive-line rather than clutch becomes a proven cause of your issue I was not thinking of any more than gears or driveshaft splines disengaging.
Impossible in a diff but possible in a gearbox or transfer case. Plenty of gearboxes jump out of gear but you would have noticed that. Maybe the transfer case could play a fault role?
I didn't bother mentioning locking-hubs as an AWD would not have them.
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jclures
Seasoned veteran
Posts: 333
Location: Herberton, North Qld
1st name: John
Tow/Motorhome: Nisota
Caravan: Robustus355
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Post by jclures on Mar 22, 2023 21:57:37 GMT 10
Some Suzuki Grand Vitara are listed with dual mass flywheels, some nissans had them, anyone I new replaced them with std flywheels as they gave to much trouble
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jclures
Seasoned veteran
Posts: 333
Location: Herberton, North Qld
1st name: John
Tow/Motorhome: Nisota
Caravan: Robustus355
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Post by jclures on Mar 22, 2023 22:01:28 GMT 10
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Post by jr on Mar 23, 2023 12:13:18 GMT 10
OT, I was thinking just to stay in gear and roll to a stop and while still in gear lock the centre diff, it may be a little kinder to the gear train when stopped. I don’t know if you can lock the centre diff while on the move but probably could. When we had the original clutch replaced we were advised if it used a duel mass clutch it would cost some but fortunately is just the standard clutch. Went around to Newcastle Gearbox & Diff to pick up the old diff. They offered to open it up for me, only took them five minutes and it was laid out on the bench. I was hoping to see a planetary gear spline damaged or something. Pinion gear bearings loose and small marks on the crown-wheel but no sign of any real way it could be the problem. Even though the last DPF blow through run showed no fault this time I expect it will sooner or later. JR
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Post by ancientmariner on Mar 23, 2023 15:58:46 GMT 10
And the mystery deepens JR Had a Grand Vitara for 9 years, towed it behind the Motor Home, wish I still had it, not a skerrick of trouble.
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Post by jr on Apr 26, 2023 17:38:09 GMT 10
It’s been over a month now and the loss of drive has gone! The drive loss virtually happened every day but since the noisy front diff and housing has been replaced the fault has disappeared. No longer is there an effect like the clutch was slipping. Unfortunately, the old front diff has been scrapped so I will never find out what the hell was the problem. I can only assume the spline where the inner axle goes into the planetary gears was moving out enough to disengage and as this vehicle is an all-wheel drive, drive would be lost. As OT suggested if only I had locked the centre diff when slippage had occurred it would prove that drive was not lost due to clutch slippage. The attached drawing is the Suzuki front diff assembly and everything in the drawing was replaced except the outer axles which I have placed a red line through. JR
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dogbox
Seasoned veteran
Posts: 264
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Post by dogbox on Apr 26, 2023 18:02:18 GMT 10
what type of clutch is it? out of curiosity i googled it. there seem to be two types one with about 16 plates an one that looks like a normal 1 friction plate one pressue plate
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Post by jr on Apr 26, 2023 18:20:13 GMT 10
Just the normal clutch thank god as the other type costs an arm and leg.
JR
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