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Post by inca on Nov 23, 2023 13:26:03 GMT 10
I placed my order for 4 Trojan 10" HD units a week ago and the have finally arrived. Now to jack up the unit and begin the transplant.
Quality looks good and I don't anticipate any difficulties. Hopefully I can set aside a day next week to to the refit.
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Post by nsgnomad on Nov 24, 2023 16:59:28 GMT 10
I ordered 2 sets of 12" backing plates from Trailer solutions and they arrived a few weeks ago. Will begin work on swapping them over in few days. Hopefully it will go smoothly, or have I just jinxed myself. 🤔
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Post by nsgnomad on Nov 25, 2023 20:32:39 GMT 10
Managed to fit in some time to get one wheel done today. OT and someone else mentioned about centering the backing plate on the mounting plate. On mine I was happy to discover that there was a raised section that fitted snugly into the centre opening of the backing plate, thus centering it in the same way that a wheel is centred when it is mounted onto a hub. Bit of a learning curve as I went along and of course the bolts were somewhat difficult to remove,(dirt, rust etc), but the remaining 3 should be a bit quicker. Yet to adjust the brake shoes and grease the shackles. TBA. Question though.. I tightened the backing plate mounting bolts to 50nm. Is this too tight?
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Post by inca on Nov 27, 2023 6:21:01 GMT 10
Roger, bolts are tensioned according to their composition, thread size and diameter and the figures quoted are for clean unoiled bolts. Just have a search on the net for the tables.
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Post by Old Techo on Nov 27, 2023 7:28:04 GMT 10
Roger,
If a spec is quoted I use a torque wrench, especially for engine assembly.
When there is no spec I use the 'what feels about right for that sized bolt' method.
When there is no spec and I think it a critical enough situation I use Ian's suggested method.
For my brake job here I used the 'felt right' method
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Post by nsgnomad on Nov 27, 2023 19:45:11 GMT 10
I did look up the tables today, and for the 3/8 UNF bolt it is 57nm. So my guess wasn't too far out, although a little light. 2 wheels down, 2 to go. It is amazing just what crops to take time available away from completing a task. (Christmas and food shopping, exercise etc and aren't all the shops busy at the moment).
I am greasing the spring shackles at the same time as doing the brakes. You wouldn't believe it, but my grease gun exploded on me. One of the grease points was a bit tight and the end casting on the gun just blew apart.
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Post by jr on Nov 28, 2023 13:37:29 GMT 10
My storey is a bit drawn out so unless you are interested in electric brake drum stores give it a miss. My 12” electric brakes have been getting worse and worser over the last couple of years and find I am now running the brake controller setting at max and still not good enough. Anyway, checked the voltage at the brake 9.8V at the two wheels so I consider that is enough for the brakes to work OK. I had the drums machined about two years ago and have never been happy since. After machining one drum had 12 thou run-out and the place that did the job centre popped my drum hub one or two dozen times as they said the bearing was to loose, and they use the outer bearing cone to centre the drum no dial indicator, don’t think they even know what a dial indicator is. Now my drums where made by Melbourne Trailers and Caravans and they have been taken over by AL-KO. To replace the drums (two part) I now have to use AL-KO 12” drums $450 each and need a special spacer on the axial plate to relocate the brake shoe backing plate so the magnets run in the correct position. Using genuine AL-KO drums special spacer and AL-KO brake shoes and backing plate plus off-road magnets I am looking at $1500.00 all AL-KO stuff. If I went none genuine I probably would be up for a $1000.00 and that is still expensive, but you cannot buy cheap 12” 3 tonne rated drums. Interesting when I mentioned to the dealer about cheap brake shoes and backing plate he just said that the magnets are not as good, and brake shoes don’t always centre on the little square block that the magnet arm moves to operate the brakes, and the brakes can over heat. This shop is AL-KO all the way no other brands. I have friends with 10” after-market stuff and people on this forum are using them and never had an issue. After speaking to AL-KO Melbourne and the only Melbourne Trailer employee left at AL-KO he advised that they no longer had any Melbourne Trailer parts, so I was re-directed to the Sydney office who directed me to ISP Newcastle as they said Robert at ISP has better knowledge of how to adapt AL-KO drums. I will buy the AL-KO drums as to fit new brake shoes will need larger size shoes to match the old machined over-size drums and the vertical surface for the magnets to run on may need machining and unless you have your own lathe like OT no one wants to machine the magnet running surface. Its ironic that after all my phone calls to find out what to do the expert on the subject is 15 minutes from my place. JR
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Post by nsgnomad on Nov 28, 2023 20:39:31 GMT 10
JR, have you considered changing to disc brakes? I have no idea of their cost, or even if they would be suitable for your application, but with the $$ you are up for now, it might be worth looking into.
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Post by bazza44 on Nov 29, 2023 7:19:57 GMT 10
JR not sure if this helps but Couplemate Trailer Parts have one piece 12 inch drums for $320. Not sure about stud pattern or bearing size. Will these fit your axle or do you need the two piece.
Barry
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Post by bazza44 on Nov 29, 2023 7:26:08 GMT 10
JR cancel what I said, I reread their info and that price is for the drum part of a two piece hub, sorry.
Barry
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Post by jr on Nov 29, 2023 9:29:55 GMT 10
Yes Roger I did look at discs about two years ago. My van has an ATM of 2.7 tonne on two wheels and off the shelf discs are not up to the task unless I fit two-disc calliper mounts on each disk and use the highest hydraulic pressure actuator available. Then there is the hand brake which I really could not see a simple solution as the brake calliper is hydraulic and has no way to adapt a hand brake, cost was well above $2000.00 more like $3000. The 12” drums have a rated stopping power of 3 tonne plus with 800mm dia wheels. The 12” drums did work well so hopping new drums with good magnet running surfaces and well-matched brake shoes will make the brakes like new. Thanks for the suggestion Barry, Couplemate did have the best price of $415.00 per two-part drum set plus mailing cost. ISP in Newcastle are charging $440.00 for the 3tonne drums with the 5 stud Landcruiser pattern and 9/16 UNF studs plus $40.00/each for the special Melbourne trailers to AL-KO spacer. ISP seemed to be the only people that have the spacer and have a good understanding of there products. Once I fit the AL-KO drums I can down the track just buy the drum without the hub as long as the bearings are a good fit in the hub. As the old drums are 16years old I expect my days of caravaning will be over before another 16 years come. JR
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Post by Old Techo on Nov 29, 2023 10:51:59 GMT 10
JR,
I didn't follow your comments about the bad machining of your drums.
You mentioned a loose bearing and I can't figure that claim. When I do my drums on my lathe, I use both inner and outer bearing cones left in place for exact centring on my home-made lathe shaft.
I think I stated somewhere that after the job I had less than half a thou drum runout when tested with bearings fitted on an axle.
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Post by jr on Nov 29, 2023 12:23:53 GMT 10
Hi OT, if only I owned a lathe, I spent two years working on lathes when I was an apprentice. Yes, they also centre the drum with an adaptor using the inner and outer bearing outer cones which they claim was loose, so they centre popped the surface that the cones seat on. When I supplied the cones which I had removed they were quite firm to remove so really there was no need to centre pop the hubs. Centre popping a surface is an old fitter trick to tighten up a flogged out hole the bearing goes in, not a good fix. Another issue is these hub/drums are two pieces, so really the only time the drum is fully seated on the hub is when the wheel is clamped on with the wheel nuts and I wonder if they did that. To machine a two-piece drum properly without wheel nuts would be best to just have the drum in the chuck via the drum centre hole and reverse screw the chuck and set up with a dial indicator or use the special cone system with the drum held tightly on the hub with the wheel nuts. I believe their centring devise was a bit rough and they did not check runout. These people are not tradesmen. Drum Drum and Hub JR
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Post by Old Techo on Nov 29, 2023 12:49:09 GMT 10
Thanks JR,
I struggle to accept their claim of loose bearing cones. I have replaced all of my 8 cones several times and I have to use my press to push them out with a graunching sound.
As for having a 2 piece system, I would only ever machine the drums with the 2 pieces assembled. When apart check that the mating surfaces are spotlessly clean - clamp the 2 parts together using all 5 bolts well tightened and mark the 2 parts to ensure they always go back together in the same relationship.
The discs on my kid's cars are 2 piece. The only way I can machine them is with the disc separated from their hub but I bolt them to another lathe tool I made. Before I do that I take a fine cut off said tool to ensure it runs 100% true. Centring accuracy is not that important with discs but critical with drums.
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Post by nsgnomad on Dec 1, 2023 14:37:50 GMT 10
Now that the job is finished, I will make a comment about nobody's friend, Murphy. About 12 months and less than 2000 km ago, I had checked and regreased all the bearings on my van. That's how I knew it was coming up time to replace the brakes. So when I removed the drums to replace the brakes, I figured I didn't need to regrease the bearings again. As I mentioned above, I was working outside on my road base covered caravan pad. So out of 4 outer bearings from the wheels. I dropped 2 of them on the ground, necessitating washing and then regreasing again. Don't you hate Murphy too.
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