cupie
Been here for a while
Posts: 58
Location: S E Queensland
1st name: Graham
Tow/Motorhome: 1996 4.2 EFI GQ Patrol
Caravan: 1998 Jayco Westport
|
Post by cupie on Apr 25, 2021 8:53:46 GMT 10
Must be a sign of the times or of the affluence of the local community given that on my last two trips to the local rubbity, when I pulled up at the lights on the first day there was a Tesla in the adjacent lane & next to it was some sort of hybrid Toyota RV. Low & behold, on the next trip beside me at the same lights was another but different color Tesla.
|
|
|
Post by Old Techo on May 19, 2021 12:29:48 GMT 10
|
|
|
Post by ancientmariner on May 25, 2021 7:33:36 GMT 10
Checked The Pinehurst Press to verify subject - Printed as says...................
A different perspective than the one pushed by the Greens and Politicians generally!!
How will highways be maintained?? Each state and the Federal Government levies taxes on gasoline and petroleum products!!
(A Canadian perspective.)
THE PINEHURST PRESS NEWS & VIEWS
Interesting Take on Electric Cars
As an engineer I love the electric vehicle technology However, I have been troubled for a longtime by the fact that the electrical energy to keep the batteries charged has to come from the grid and that means more power generation and a huge increase in the distribution infrastructure.
Whether generated from coal, gas, oil, wind or sun, installed generation capacity is limited. A friend sent me the following that says it very well.You should all take a look at this short article.
IF ELECTRIC CARS DO NOT USE GASOLINE, THEY WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN PAYING AGASOLINE TAXON EVERY GALLON THAT IS SOLD FOR AUTOMOBILES, WHICH WAS ENACTED SOME YEARS AGO TO HELP TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES.THEY WILL USE THE ROADS, BUT WILL NOT PAY FOR THEIRMAINTENANCE!
In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car: Ever since the advent of electric cars,the REAL cost per mile of those things has never been discussed.All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity to run it. This is the first article I've ever seen and tells the story pretty much as I expected it to.
Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things yet they're being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put engineering and math to paper.
At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbour, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.
If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an'OOPS...!'and a shrug.
If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following. Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.
Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph. According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles =$0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery.
Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg =$0.10 per mile.
The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs $46,000 plus. So the Canadian Government wants loyal Canadians not to do the math, but simply pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country.
I wonder if the great green brains have considered this:
Snow, Traffic Jams, and Electric Cars.
Can we show a little forethought and practicality? Please?
Has anyone thought about it?
If all cars were electric ... and were caught up in a three hour traffic jam... dead batteries! Then what?
Not to mention, that there is virtually no heating in an electric vehicle.
And if you get stuck on the road all night, no battery, no heating, no windshield wipers, no radio, no GPS (all these drain the battery) !!!
You can try calling 911 to bring women and children to safety!
But they cannot come to help you since all roads are blocked and the socialist green weenies will probably require all police cars to be electric also (if we still have police departments then) !!!
And when the roads become unblocked no one can move! Their batteries are dead and they cannot move.
How do you charge the thousands of cars in the traffic jam? (That is a business I think I’d like to look into. Drones to deliver heavy batteries and someone to remove and install.)
Same problem during summer vacation departures with miles of traffic jams.
There is virtually NO air conditioning in an electric vehicle. It would drain your battery quickly.
This will make cars run out of "fuel" and create never ending traffic jams, not to mention high tempers.
No socialist bent reporter talks about this of course!
You can’t even call in horses to rescue you. The Socialists are against horses and cows who defecate.
Wouldn’t it be easier to just get rid of the socialist politicians who are trying to help China’s economy?
|
|
|
Post by Old Techo on May 25, 2021 13:32:07 GMT 10
Interesting
I don’t have enough time to analyse/reply to this in the detail it deserves.
It does make some valid points but also some quite silly ones.
For example electricity costed at $1.16 Canadian is $1.24 Aus and that is 4 times my peak rate and nearly 9 times my overnight rate when charging would be done.
Another aspect in Oz is the expected use of home solar/battery systems to charge your car very cheaply. The test car electric range of 25 miles is an absolute joke claim and says a lot about the car.
The ‘all cars are electric and 3 hour traffic jam… dead batteries’ is a crazy scenario. When stationary in a traffic jam your electric engine uses no energy vs an idling fossil fuelled one. Sure, heat or air con would consume battery but if your fossil fuelled car got low on fuel you would switch off those things.
The slow evolutionary way that eVehicles will populate the roads will be combined with huge advances in design and energy storage. It will be a bloody long time before the majority are electric.
Stuck on the road all night with no radio or GPS… what about your phone?
The article has valid points but is not a balanced perspective. It looks just like an attack on ‘greenies’. Now I’m no ‘greenie’ as most of them bug me with their extreme arguments but I do support common sense conservation.
I'm also not a fan of eVehicles as they don't make the right sounds
|
|
|
Post by nsgnomad on May 25, 2021 16:08:38 GMT 10
Selectively choosing facts is a way of presenting a positive arguement on virtually anything
|
|
cupie
Been here for a while
Posts: 58
Location: S E Queensland
1st name: Graham
Tow/Motorhome: 1996 4.2 EFI GQ Patrol
Caravan: 1998 Jayco Westport
|
Post by cupie on May 25, 2021 16:44:24 GMT 10
Roger ... I don't understand your comment. As Pauline might say 'Please explain'
Having said that, an unfair tactic that I used to use way back in the day was to read a report & if I wanted to discredit it, I would find a statistical error & then argue that given that this was wrong that the whole report was wrong ... a tactic that I picked up from 'How to Lie with Statistics'. BTW I usually got away with it, at least until my Boss employed a statistician who was awake up to me.
Are you saying that this was what Old Techo was doing? I didn't think so.
|
|
|
Post by ancientmariner on May 25, 2021 16:52:41 GMT 10
I am not into e vehicles either OT, mine that I have will see me out. About the only E vehicle will be a battery driven gofer cart when the time comes.
|
|
|
Post by Mick Themungrel on May 25, 2021 20:37:54 GMT 10
|
|
|
Post by Old Techo on May 25, 2021 21:05:19 GMT 10
In remote parts of Oz the long distances pose a risk even for fossil fuelled vehicles with small fuel tanks and especially LPG powered.
eVehicles can been very useful in town but I wouldn't fancy one too far out of the 'burbs.
There is no doubt that range will grow just as computer memory did.
In 1974 I thought that the 24x7 online mainframe international message switching system that I maintained was just wonderful having a hard drive the size of a washing machine that took 2 people to move but had the enormous capacity of nearly 2 megabytes. Now we have 100,000 times that amount of memory on a thing smaller than a postage stamp.
Charging stations are on the rise but the sparsely populated areas will suffer for a long time. Compare the east and west coasts…
|
|
|
Post by nsgnomad on May 25, 2021 21:11:43 GMT 10
Roger ... I don't understand your comment. As Pauline might say 'Please explain' ... Are you saying that this was what Old Techo was doing? I didn't think so. My comment was that there are 2 sides to any argument and there isn't necessarily one side that is right. I was thinking that it is similar to a statistical arguement in that statistics can be used to illustrate /prove anything so long as you choose the right set of figures. That being said, the article does seem to present more of the whole story on e-vehicles than is usually presented by those who are trying to push the change to e-vehicles.
|
|
|
Post by Old Techo on Jun 2, 2021 15:32:58 GMT 10
|
|
|
Post by loub on Jun 3, 2021 5:23:24 GMT 10
I've also thought other than inner city e vehicles the hydrid was a good one for out of town application and would look at them for where i live and play in regional Qld.Next door neighbour has the hybrid Rav 4 and loves it but when you look into it the petrol motor kicks in at 30ks so as we travel a lot at above 80k its going to run on mainly petrol any way.
|
|
|
Post by collyn on Jun 4, 2021 15:12:55 GMT 10
Many people touting electric cars seem unaware that the grid power source is only about 25% efficient and emits much the same level of emissions as a petrol-engined car. They only really make sense if home-solar powered.
Collyn
|
|
|
Post by Old Techo on Jul 3, 2021 11:10:41 GMT 10
An opinion on Quora....
Kevin Davidson Owns 2 electric cars Updated May 24, 2020 Why are electric cars not replacing the conventional cars? There are some fine answers already, and some outright false information. I’ll give a short answer: - Car dealers do not want to sell electric vehicles because they lose significant revenue on maintenance service. They discourage BEV buyers, because electric vehicles require less service. - Consumers are not fully informed about their options. - Consumers have been scared off by false information. - Long-range electric vehicles are expensive. - EVs charge slower than gasoline tanks fill, an issue when you aren’t charging at home. - Electric vehicles are not yet available in certain categories such as pickup trucks and off-road vehicles. - Gasoline cars are familiar territory; electric cars are not. - Several electric models are not sold in most US states. Some discussion: I know from personal experience, before I looked into my options in detail, that much of what I thought I knew about electric cars was out of date or just plain wrong. If the primary use of a car is a commute of 100 miles or less per day, then an electric car is a compelling solution. Get a Nissan Leaf or Hyundai Ioniq. A gasoline car makes no sense in that scenario for someone who can charge at home. With the introduction of the Chevrolet Bolt, electric vehicles with good range (over 250 miles) became affordable, and the Tesla Model 3, now in production, adds to your options. Charging electric vehicles takes time, but there are fast charging options, particularly from Tesla. I made a 450 mile trip a couple of weeks ago, and it took longer to finish my sit-down lunch than it did to charge the car. You can’t eat lunch or go to the restroom while filling your gasoline car, and of course nobody can fill up their gasoline tank parked in their garage overnight—but you can charge your EV that way. While it is true that most electric energy in the US comes from non-renewable sources, it is also true that an electric vehicle has an efficiency equivalent to a gasoline car getting 100 mpg or better and the grid is getting greener year by year. [Since originally writing this answer, I took a 5,000 mile road trip in my Tesla Model 3. Piece of cake.]
|
|
|
Post by A'van on Jul 8, 2021 13:48:51 GMT 10
A second hand car yard in France for electric cars, its cheaper to buy a new car than a new battery.
|
|